Hey everyone!
As mentioned in this post, there will now be a “live chat” post for each new episode. Feel free to post thoughts before, during and after the episode here. This will be a place for all the discussion on the new episode before the review post goes up.
I’m actually holding off till the second showing of the episode (people will be coming over for that one but not the first) so I’ll check back in in a few hours.
I don’t know about anyone else but I already feel all anxious and have butterflies in my stomach.
If you want to get even more excited, check out what Vince Gilligan has to say about this episode. Warning though, there is a small spoiler in that this article gives away one character who definitely makes it to 515. Kinda wish I hadn’t read for that reason. So read at your own risk.
Have at it!
The post for “Ozymandias” is now up!
~Emilia J
April Julia 
I see it sure didn’t take long for Jane’s death to come up!
And as I expected, Walt sure isn’t about to forgive Jesse any time soon.
At this point, Walt not only blames his predicament on Jesse, but also Hank’s death (as well he should, since Jesse was a rat after all).
Did we get any indication that Walt lost his cell phone before or during the shootout?
Because considering that he watched Hank make a gloating phone call to SOMEone, surely one of the first things he would do – especially after that very hasty exit from the carwash – is let Skyler know he is OK.
I wonder about his cell phone too. Did he ditch it after he called Jack and told them to come and then called it off? I would think that if he still had it, Gomez would’ve taken it off him when he took the keys. Hmmm?
~EJ
I guess Gomez would have taken Walt’s phone, and Walt never had a chance to retrieve it. And I guess the fact that Walt is shown using what looks like the same phone later (when he calls Skyler) is because Walt has a bunch of identical ‘burner’ phones, and he picked up another one when he was at his house.
Still, after Walt’s hasty exit from the carwash, once he settled down enough to drive away, his FIRST action would have been to call Saul and Skyler. But I guess we are to believe that Walt was so much in shock that he didn’t think about that.
They needed the tearful goodbye call from Hank so that Marie could go on her mission to make Skyler tell Jr. And then they had to concoct the ‘running out of gas’ bit to give Marie enough time to do that.
I just watched the part of S5E13 where Gomez is patting Walt down, and though it’s very hard to see, it does look like he has both Walt’s keys AND his cellphone in his hand after reaching into Walt’s jacket pocket. As for how Walt could drive out of there without his keys, I think somebody else said the car keys were shown at some point to still in the ignition, but I didn’t look for that.
So that takes care of that loose end. I guess we can believe that Walt was still too broken up over Hank’s death to think about calling Skyler until after he snapped out of it (at which point Jack and the gang were gone). But we can also be pretty sure that Jack’s crew would have stripped EVERYthing that could serve as a form of ID off of H & G’s bodies, including all keys & cell phones.
Still, IMO it would have been better if they had Walt looking for his missing cell phone (to call Skyler) but not having any way to do it. That would have taken only a few seconds, which they could easily have trimmed off of the ‘rolling barrel through the desert’ scene.
My basic point is that once Walt came to his sense enough to drive, he would have been in the same ‘mode’ he was in at the house, knowing that he HAD to contact Saul ASAP to set his escape into motion.
But these are fairly minor quibbles, I guess.
Didn’t take long for Marie to go on her gloating/commiseration mission either.
Also, I figured the price for Walt’s rescue was going to be a lot higher than for just offing Jesse.
But even I didn’t think it would be nearly $70 million dollars!
BTW, nobody smelled the gasoline leaking out of Walt’s car? Really?
I bet there were a lot of other smells going on. Plus they’re in the open desert so smells aren’t so contained. And lots of other things to occupy their minds.
I was surprised that Walt was actually willing to give up all $80 million for Hank’s life. Walt is so complex in this episode.
~EJ
I liked the way they had Todd figure out that Jesse was of more use to them alive than dead, and without even having to get wounded!
And the way Walt revealed Jane’s death to Jesse sure makes it seem as if Walt will never forgive Jesse for bringing all this down on them, but…
…since Skyler finally reached her limit, and quite reasonably reacted the way she did once Walt took off with the baby, that might develop into Jesse being the only “family” Walt has left who is willing to have anything to do with him, setting the stage for Walt’s showdown with the M-60.
One thing’s for sure, they do show Walt to totally “Break Stupid” (as well as becoming even badder) when he gets P-O’d. And while it does seem like a bit of a stretch for Walt to completely forget about basic stuff like watching what he says on the phone?
Casual BB viewers will see Walt as being so P-O’d at Jesse that he would never be coming back to rescue him. Or maybe VG is planning on doing ‘the exact reverse opposite’ type of plot twist for BB fanatics?
While using the existing money pit hole was an expedient place to bury the two bodies, the exact coordinates of that location are known to Walt.
BTW, how in the world would Walt have any reason to “know” (or think) that Hank was just acting on his own? Maybe it was just a desperate ploy because there only H & G were there?
He probably would’ve said anything to save Hank’s life. But he probably also has a pretty good guess. They were out there alone, and he knew that Hank hadn’t wanted to tell others at the DEA. But he can’t be sure.
Walt’s always been kinda sloppy and stupid when he gets emotional. And I think as far as saying that stuff to Jesse on the phone in the last episode, he just never thought Jesse would’ve turned on him so no reason to watch what he said. But in this episode, he said it on purpose, to help Skyler, make her seem innocent in all this.
~EJ
I dunno….in Walt’s mind, maybe now he and Jesse are “even” in some intricately karmic way, Hank’s death balancing out Jane’s, clearing the way for Walt to act on the paternal feelings I believe he STILL has for Jesse (ie, rescue mission with M-60). But Jesse’s mind may have a radically different view of things……I don’t think he’ll ever forgive Walt for Jane. OR Brock.
I know. After the last episode, I thought if either Walt or Jesse would somehow help the other, it’d be Jesse. But now that’s totally flipped. I think the thing to remember is that it’s several months down the line, in the story, when Walt returns, so a lot can happen. The interesting thing is that as far as Walt knows, Jesse’s dead. It’s really hard to see how this all can play out. I still think that Skyler might die for some reason. I don’t know, it just seems to me in that flashforward that he’s missing Skyler more than he would based on what we saw now. OMG I couldn’t sleep at all last night.
~EJ
All those old cast members (Max Arciniega, Jonathan Banks, David Costabile, Raymond Cruz, etc.) listed for tonight’s episodes were no-shows. Maybe we’ll see them next week in a ‘Ghost of Christmas Past’ moment, or maybe the BB producers are just playing with us by putting their names out there?
That puts the advance cast listings in doubt. Even so, I noticed this weekend that Gomez wasn’t listed for Oz and figured he would die, and it was so. It also correctly listed an Abq cop. I see other things for Granite State but this is spoiler stuff so zzzip.
You see spoilers in the IMDB info for “Granite State”?
“zzzip” = your lips are sealed?
Nothing that’s a big reveal but yeah. A noticeable MIA and a questionable presence.
But as we’ve just seen once again with tonight’s episode, the IMDB cast listings are notorious for their inaccuracy. I t also looks to me like the cast lists are adjusted after episodes air to reflect who actually appeared.
Up until now, the listings were incomplete but if someone was listed, they showed up. For example, Andrea was listed for 513, and she showed up. But Brock wasn’t listed, and Jack and Gomez weren’t listed for any of the episodes, including the ones they were in. So I don’t take absences too seriously but all of the presences have been right up until this one.
I wish they hadn’t put all those guys on there because I was so looking forward to that and I felt a little disappointed not to see them. I thought the same thing though, maybe in the next? I always thought they would come up when Walt was in his other life. But I don’t want to hope for it when it might not happen.
~EJ
re: “Gomez wasn’t listed for Oz and figured he would die”
Actually, Steven Michael Quezada is listed in the opening credits for tonight’s episode.
I think trying to discern anything from the IMDB cast listings is an exercise in futility.
Anybody else think that knife was going to end up in Skyler’s chest during that struggle?
YES! I really thought Skyler or Junior would get seriously injured by that knife. Man, that was so fucking intense!
~EJ
Yeah, me too, for sure. I was screaming at them during the whole scene :)
At the carwash, Skyler never has ANY suspicion that Marie might just be trying to do what Hank failed to do when the two met at the diner? And she rolls over on Walt without calling ANYone (in circumstances like this, “Better Call Saul”) for verification of what Marie said? Yeah, I know, they’re sisters, but Skyler also heard Marie say she wished Walt would die, too. Of course, come to think of it, that may be what Skyler wanted too, if it meant getting out of the situation Walt put them in (and still keeping the money, of course!)
Skyler’s been getting pretty desperate. I think there’s honestly some relief in what Marie says, even if that was trumped by other things, I think relief was in there.
~EJ
totally agree — there was a tremendous amount of relief for Skyler that the secret was out
OK, it may have been plausible, but considering how extremely reluctant Skyler was to tell Jr. about what Walt had been doing all this time, I still think it was a stretch, one they needed because they have too little airtime remaining to let the story run in a more natural course.
Skyler went along with the video “confession” Walt made (however reluctantly), and she also was no stranger to contacting Saul herself when confronted with a sticky legal situation (e.g: Ted’s IRS issue). Marie did mention Jesse Pinkman, but Skyler knows he isn’t the most credible fellow, and she doesn’t like him either. Let’s not forget one very crucial salient point: just because Marie says Hank arrested Walt, does not automatically translate into a criminal conviction. However much Skyler might like to get this all off her chest, what she really wanted was for it to go away, not blow up in her face. Marie basically dropped a bomb in Skyler’s lap and told her to light the fuse. Skyler’s most likely response would not have been to just spill the beans on everything right then and there. Don’t forget that doing that also potentially implicated Sklyer (and considering her state of mind, it would be a near-certainty).
But, this is not real life. It’s a TV show, and they can have the characters do whatever they want in order to make the plot head where they want. And I thought that several elements of Sunday’s episode strained the credibility of the narrative in a way the the excellent acting did not overcome.
JMHO
re-watching it now… looks like Todd convinced Jack to leave Walt one of the barrels.
Yeah I think that was all Todd. He did some good thinking in this one. “Sorry for your loss” was so funny in a creepy way.
~EJ
Hey guys, I’ll have lots more to say in the morning but for now I just want to say….read my predictions from last of who lives and dies in the shootout, and weep. YEAH BITCH!
~EJ
Jesse (when Todd is taking him out of the pit): ‘I told you where to find the tape… just go to his house and get it.’
So I guess Marie will be the next family member to die?
Or will she stay at Walt’s house to console her sister long enough for Jack’s crew to retrieve it?
OMG I thought that too! Sending Jack and his guys to Hank’s house can’t be good for anyone, including Jack since it won’t take too long to realize that two DEA agents are missing. So they have to be careful, but then there’s also the possibility Marie will be there when they come looking for the tape. Holy God this is only going to get worse.
~EJ
I agree, Marie’s in the way of retrieving that confession tape, and her house may be toast as well. I think now is the time the radio-control car AND driver become collateral damage.
From what I said after last week’s episode:
“…the suspenseful plot element of how long it takes Marie to figure out something went wrong (…showing her anxiety build as Hank’s absence becomes longer than ‘a while’ …how long until she calls Skyler to gloat/commiserate? …then she finds out that Walt is still free! ).”
I guess that considering how little airtime they have left, they really couldn’t wait for Marie to confront Skyler about what Hank told her. As it turned out, it only took three hours, which is faster than any official notice would have been made, if H&G had survived.
As Hank put it, Walt is the smartest man he’d ever known, but not only was Walt too stupid to know Jack would never let Hank live, but he was also too stupid to realize that his wife and teenage son were not exactly willing to just drop everything and go on the lam with him. And even if they did, Jr. in particular would never have been able to resist contacting his friends. Duh!
But you gotta give Walt credit for trying to keep Skyler off the hook with that phone call, which made her seem (mostly) clueless and too abused by/scared of him to pry into Walt’s “business.”
It was quite a performance.
Yeah that phone call was pretty spectacular!
~EJ
Every time he made a reference in the phone call to her knowing what was going on/how he made his money I cringed because that was incriminating as hell. He knows she gave Marie money for Hank’s med bills. That shows her ownership in the money and makes her an accomplice. Being scared of Walt doesn’t explain that or provide a defense there. I was left confused about what he was trying to do cuz he hurt her more than helped.
I don’t see Marie hanging out at Skyler’s house. I see Skyler at Marie’s which could be the setup for Jack & Co. If they kill her that will be Walt’s real incentive for going after Jack. It won’t be Jesse, and Walt’s satisfied to have 11 mil. On the other hand wired.com talks about a Hamlet ending, and Skyler could get the poison meant for Jack. Sister killing sister will really f us up which is what Vince is trying his damndest to do.
Note to the next wannabe-a-badass TV character who finds himself in Walt’s position, trying to negotiate for the life of his federal agent relative: Maybe it would have been prudent to find out if the fed is willing to even consider the deal before you reveal to the thug who is about to kill him that the $80 million you’re willing to trade for his life is so very nearby, easy pickings for the guys who have all the guns.
And Jack, providing a location using geo-coordinates is certainly NOT anything out of the ordinary when your location is out i the boonies like that.
Yeah, that was so intense. As soon as Walt mentioned the money, I KNEW those guys were going to put it together and dig it up AND still kill Hank.
And to your earlier post, yeah, no way Skyler and Jr would agree to go on the run with him, especially without an explanation. Saul said as much to Walt in “Crawl Space.” And now that Jr knows, even less likely. Man, the acting was outta this world.
~EJ
Hi Emilia and others,
Oh mein Gott. Das war fast nicht auszuhalten. This episode was almost impossible to watch: It was so brilliantly written and performed by every one ( including Walt JR. what an amazing emotional roler coaster) I must admit I cried for almost every person involved in this “Greek Tragedy”: First Jesse ( seeing his wound on his pretty face ..he will be scared for life , literally) , then for Walt Jr. and Skyler ( Anna Gunn …I salute you … I am the Nr ONE anna Gunn fan from this Episode on … I know a little bit late you might say. BUt BOY what a convincing performance)
And then of course Bryan Cranston : If you have been a die hard Team Heisenberg, this time you might have finally changed sides. But even then, I caught myself feeling a little bit sorry for him too, because you can see his emotional turmoil, havning been responsible for Hanks death but at the same time completely destroying every possible path that could have been they way back to his family …. No he left no prisoners at the end …a little bit like some Dictator who knows, that he lost the war so he destroys every infrastructure of his country, that could have been usefull for the aftermath rebuildign phase. Sry but that reminded me of Adolf Hitler in 1945. Heisenberg was Hitler before his suicide, telling his soldiers to fight till the end and destroy the whole country on the way of retread, leaving nothing to grab for the enemy.
Before I stop , let me apologize for my bad English…. my emotions still run high even after 2-3 hours watching this episode a second time.
love
Marcel
Hey Marcel, no worries about your English. You’re really easy to understand :)
I know, my emotions are running high too. Oh my God. I seriously almost felt traumatized by watching that episode and I almost don’t want to watch it again to do my write-up. It was like a nonstop descent into lower and lower levels of hell. I mean, WOW. And yes, Walt/Heisenberg is so, so complex. He is horrible, but also still has some humanity.
The acting is so, so good in this episode. I really think BrBa will clean up at the Emmys next year.
~EJ
@nomad
Ok now I see it. Of course the phone call was for Skyler to be seen as a Walts victim and not accomplice. So he knew that the call was recorded. That makes total sense. It was amazing to see Skyler freeing herself from the mental prison she was in for months. You could see this 3 episodes before with Jesse and today with Skyler, both going “berserk” one was or another.
Skyler obviously suffered from Stockholm syndrome before todays Episodem, siding with Walt all the way until today of course…..
“one WAY or another “
I felt a big sense of relief to see Skyler break free. I’m not even rooting against Walt or anything, but I could feel for her story a lot and it was gratifying to see her break free.
~EJ
I watched the encore broadcast and was amazed at Anna Gunn’s performance. The play of emotions on her face as she realized what Walt was doing in the phone call was brilliant, subtle, mesmerizing. Brava!
I also had knife phobia throughout the entire episode since they loomed so large from the opening flashback…Chekov’s knife, yo.
Kudos to whoever had the idea of fading out Walt and Jesse (and the RV) from the comparatively bucolic early cook scene back into the midst of blazing gunfire. Almost unbearably poignant. And that “goodbye to everyone” song playing in the background as Walt rolled the money across the desert……wowza, what an episode.
Pondering: WHY is Walt going to come back for the ricin cig? Seems like it would be easier to whip up another one, unless he’s planning to off himself and wants the karmic justice of it being through THAT particular cigarette. (is it even still in a cigarette, or is it just the vial of ricin?)
Hey Ring!
I know, it’s actually sort of harder now to predict exactly why and how Walt comes back, especially as he comes back several months later. As for the ricin, it’s just in a vial, not a cigarette anymore. He made that switch in “Madrigal.”
Totally agree about Anna Gunn’s performance. And the fadeout to the shootout. This was such a brilliant episode.
I like that, Chekhov’s knife. And Chekhov’s disappearer finally played out at the very end.
~EJ
The delay with Walt’s return…we know he’s been outed and is so notorious and fearsome that his neighbor probably sprang a leak when she saw him. That may mean some, most, or all of the murders have come to light. He can’t come back to town until so much time has passed that the hunt has mostly been given up. Since I think the motive is revenge (likely Skyler’s death), that may be served up cold. It’s possible that Jesse gets to a phone after several months have elapsed and begs for help.
re: “It’s possible that Jesse gets to a phone after several months have elapsed and begs for help.”
Begs for help from whom? Walt? Who has been professionally “disappeared”?
So you’re saying Walt won’t come to rescue Jesse because Jesse has no way of reaching him? What if he calls Saul and Saul finds a way to contact Walt. As a plot twist, Walt coming to save Jesse when they are now at the height of mutual hatred would be effective. Last act of morality before taking the ricin.
First off, I must say how much I’ve enjoyed reading your BB-related posts. I stumbled on here after Google-ing reviews of the new episodes, and I ended up reading a vast majority of your topics as the days went on. Marvelous writing on your part.
I also must say that the scene where Walter calls Skyler was, to me, the most devastating of the episode. This is really saying a lot, because Hank dying, Walt coldly telling Jesse that he watched Jane die, Jr. finding out the truth, and the knife fight sequence were all terrible to sit through. The part where Walter stands looking at Jr. and Skyler, and the camera slowly zooms away from them, and Walt says through his tears, “My family…” ugh my heart just broke.
But about the phone call, it was so devastating to see, because that entire episode built the viewer up to once and for all turn on Walt. No matter how long you’ve held on as a Team Walt member, it was literally impossible to stay that way. And in one 5-minute phone call, I think Vince opened a door for you to rejoin the team. I agree with what Bill Hader said on Talking Bad, when Walt first started talking I was really scared he was going to pull a “Hank confession tape” and implicate Skyler in the whole thing. However, once it became clear he was taking the entire blame on himself, I just couldn’t hold it together anymore. And the fact that he was sounding so evil, but taking those short breaks to quietly sob to himself, I think all but won Bryan Cranston another well-deserved Emmy. Goodness what an episode.
And for the record, as pointless as predictions are to make with this show, here’s my prediction for the finale: Skyler and kids go into witness protection (explaining the deserted White family home in the flash forward,) Walt returns to ABQ with the ricin and M60 to exact revenge against the Nazis but also to rescue Jesse (in the months since his departure, he’s had time to look back on his works, and despair, so to say,) and in a blaze of glory scene reminiscent of the season 4 finale “Face Off,” Walt Rambo’s his way in and rescues Jesse by mowing down Uncle Jack and Co. Jesse strangles Todd with that leash thing attaching him to the ceiling. The ricin is used in Lydia’s tea (also agreeing with Bill Hader on this one) before the shootout. And ala Face Off, Walt and Jesse burn down the lab before walking away like bosses. However, this time, instead of ending with a handshake, this one ends with Jesse killing Walt. The Jane admission I think sealed Walt’s fate in Jesse’s eyes, no matter how daring of a rescue Walt just pulled off.
Hi Dillon,
Yeah, this was a roller coaster of an episode. I think I already said it on here but there is a part of me that actually doesn’t want to sit through it again because it was such a plummet into Hell. But so exquisite. I’m totally with you on that phone call. He’s being the biggest ass we’ve ever seen (except maybe what he said to Jesse about Jane) but he’s doing it to help her out, and it’s breaking his heart. I like that Walt has these very conflicting sides. He was Heisenberg there, calculating, but he was doing it for the good of someone who’d just held a knife to him. And I was touched that he would give up the money for Hank, and honestly a little surprised.
Yes, for sure another Emmy for Bryan Cranston. This will be his episode.
Haven’t seen Talking Bad yet but will watch later today. I do think time may allow Walt to have a change of heart towards Jesse, and others. But the big question will be how will he find out Jesse’s still alive? And what will make him go back for him? I still think that is the most likely person he would go back to protect. If Uncle Jack and his men were to somehow want to harm Skyler or someone else in his family for some reason, I don’t see them keeping Sky/Jr/etc alive long enough for Walt to come back and save them. It has to be Jesse. Or I’m just eternally hopeful for him. I think the ricin is for himself or Lydia. I was thinking Jesse but is he really going to come back to rescue Jesse just to kill him? I don’t think so. Maybe he rescues Jesse and wants Jesse to kill him? That would be weird but that thought’s been on my mind for the last week or so, though of course the ammo he’d used to do it has already fired (Jane’s death).
~EJ
ooooh, bold predictions …. I like ’em! Especially the leash strangulation. Can’t wait for somebody to off Lydia. Jesse killing Walt? I don’t think I could stand it, and it would totally unhinge Jesse. I am a nervous wreck already, waiting for next week. I want Jesse to live happily ever after with Andrea and Brock, but in the world of BrBa, I don’t like my odds.
I want that too, Ring. I want them to all escape to Alaska and start over. How powerful was it that they put that picture of Andrea and Brock in there, as a threat of what might happen if Jesse doesn’t cook.
~EJ
YES, that small 4×6″ photograph, seen at a goodly distance out of Jesse’s horribly swollen eyes, drew him to it like that giant magnet in “Live Free or Die”. The fact that they just taped it up there and didn’t point it out was just chilling. Todd totally creeps me out.
Me too. “Sorry for your loss” was one of the best lines of the episode, IMO. Oh man, that whole bit was horrible. And I still think it’s dangerous that Jack knows where A&B live. I hope that picture can give Jesse something to live for too, you know? It’s meant as a threat but maybe thinking of them will help get him through his slave cook days.
~EJ
yeah, maybe over time Jesse will make that photo his talisman and strength. Jack and crew have to be neutralized in order to protect Andrea and Brock, so perhaps Jesse will, however grudgingly, re-team with Walt. After that all bets are off.
And may I just say that I wanted to smack Marie right in her smug, self-righteous little face as she gloated over having the upper hand for once in her life with Skyler? I harbor SOME sympathy for her because of Hank’s demise, but in that moment she was unaware of that fact.
Ring – ditto what you said!
I didn’t originally think about it when typing it, but if that death goes down that way, it could almost be an homage to “Salud” from season 4 where Mike strangled that cartel hitman in Mexico. While all the chaos is taking place outside with Walt, Todd could be heading that way to see whats up, and just like Mike, Jesse sneaks up out of nowhere and gets Todd from behind. I think it’d be cool to see. However it happens, I want Jesse to off Todd. I think he’s been burning for that ever since the Drew Sharp killing.
You know, after Drew, I really think Jesse didn’t want to see any more killing, not even of Todd. But now he’s about as broken as a man can be–found out Walt poisoned Brock, almost got killed by Hank, rolled on Walt which was against his code, and now Walt gave him up and told him about Jane which just deflated him, and now he’s a prisoner forced to cook meth on a chain with someone he hates. I want to see what happens, and I also don’t want to see. But I like the way you think!
~EJ
Seems pretty clear now that Walt is coming back with the M60 to either rescue Jesse, or kill him. Maybe both, in that order.
I still would like it to end the way I suggested previously: Walt shown teaching student, who as the camera moves back are shown to be fellow inmates. This after losing his family and his cancer still hasn’t killed him yet. But it seems safe to say that ending isn’t going to happen.
Uncle Jack shoots Hank – gasp!
Jack points and cocks at Jesse, Walt NODS? – NONONONONO!!!!
TODD steps in to save him? – huh???
“I watched Jane die.” – gasp!
Walt & Skyler grapple with knife… [inhale] Skyler kneels in road. [exhale]
“This is YOUR fault… tow the line… just like Hank.” – shock -> oh….
So… much… loss…
Stunned silence… tears.
I just now saw the episode (iTunes, after work)… still recovering. I read the comments, but am too fried to analyze. Maybe tomorrow.
Emilia, you summed it up with “exquisite”.
Actually I now think that Walt will NOT be coming back to rescue Jesse, or kill him.
Let’s consider the fact that even by coming back at all, Walt would be jeopardizing his successful disappearing act. And he will have had lots of time to mull things over, so it sure should not be an impulsive decision like his frantic drive out the where his money was buried.
As far as Walt could know, Jesse would have been killed by Todd/Jack after they extracted all the details of what he told Hank. I can’t see much of any way that Jesse could manage to make the news (so that Walt would find out about him) unless it was a story about Jesse’s death. And all that would do is confirm what Walt already believed.
As far as getting even for Jack’s decision to help himself to most of Walt’s money, it would be downright foolish for Walt to return for that alone. He apparently escaped with over $10 million. The fact is that on-the-lam-Walt would be hard-pressed to spend even that much in the time he has left.
Even if Sklyer ends up losing her current income source (the carwash) to the feds due to being unable to show where the money used to purchase came from (asset seizure laws make it way too easy for the feds to help themselves to anything with even a whiff of taint), and wound up broke and having to start over, she would probably be able to get a fairly decent paying job (though her legal problems might prevent her from ever working as an accountant again). But even if she didn’t it would be pretty easy for Walt to help them out without putting his new identity in jeopardy. (OTOH, they weren’t too smart about laundering their drug money, so…)
Anyway, I think that about the only thing that would create such a powerful urge to return to ABQ would be for vengeance: something ELSE has to happen/be happening/might happen to his remaining family, something that Walt can “fix” with an M60 and a ricin capsule.
In the tumultuous aftermath of the revelations of Sunday’s episode, I think the one who will break next may be Jr. Think about it: he was already shown refusing to wear his seatbelt. That is a very minor thing, but maybe it’s a start of an all-too-typical teenage rebellion against the circumstances he finds himself in. We already know Jr. is soon going to be riding a bus instead of driving his new Challenger. Life is about to get a lot harder for Skyler and Jr., and Jr’s. “fuck it” reaction to that may be to start using drugs.
So what I’m thinking is what some others suggested a long time ago about Walt jr.: he dies of an overdose, or other circumstances related to drug use (maybe as an innocent bystander), or Skyler dies under similar circumstances, and that news could easily show up in some venue where on-the-lam-Walt would see it.
When Walt arranged his bacon (“52”) the way Skyler used to do it, is that because she is actually dead (as is the case with the others whose traits he has assumed)? Or in this case is it because he misses her (or his former family rituals) so much?
That phone call at the end of the last episode sure makes it seem that he is already doing everything he can to make it up to her, to get her off the hook. And that’s before many months pass for Walt to consider the error of his ways.
I believe that a death (or near-death/threat of death event) involving Skyler/Jr./Holly would be enough to make him come back with an M60 in his trunk and a willingness to take the risk to retrieve the ricin capsule from his house (which, let’s face it, was the last place Walt should have ever shown his face again, especially during the day). If Walt intends to put an end to the meth-making enterprise that he originally started, I would have to think the ricin capsule would be intended for Lydia, though the using it will be as sketchy as the LotV in the juice box.
One big question I have is, will Jesse still be Todd’s involuntary helper when Walt returns many months later? Will Jesse somehow trick Todd/Jack into believing they can trust him “a little” (because the safety of Andrea & Brock depends on it?), or Jesse still be chained to that track when Walt opens fire with that M60? If that’s what the M60 is for, how will Walt even find out where they’re cooking? Will he come up with a scheme to draw them out to a place where he ca kill them the way Jesse tricked him?
“Let’s consider the fact that even by coming back at all, Walt would be jeopardizing his successful disappearing act.”
VG said Walt’s coming back to rescue someone. But there’s no reason the rescue can’t double as revenge – or justice.
So whose lives are worth giving up his freedom?
His family’s, of course, but who is still alive in the flash-forward? If Skyler’s alive, is she free or behind bars? Either way, I can’t see how Walt could help her with a gun or ricin capsule. Nomad, could you explain what you mean when you say it “could be one last attempt to get Skyler off the hook”? I’ve thought for a while that she’s going to die, and Jr. telling her in the car that she’s just as bad as Walt only strengthened that hunch. But I don’t know how, now that Walt’s gone and she can’t be killed in an attempt on HIS life (since she lived through the knife tussle and no one has a motivation to target her specifically).
I like the theory that Jr. might go off the deep end. It’d be hard to watch, but understandable. But if he does die and Walt finds out, what could Walt gain by returning to ABQ?
I think Walt will eventually come to see that Hank’s death and the events that followed are the consequences of his own actions – esp. if he remembers how he blackmailed Jesse into helping him in the first place. And whoever needs to be rescued is being held under armed guard (or so it seems, by his choice of weapon). So I think he’s coming back to free Jesse, ready to die in the process, but also ready to accept whatever Jesse throws at him afterward (if he survives it). After all, what does he have to lose? He was in treatment again when things “came to a boil”, and while I can understand why he’d flee, choosing freedom over incarceration, I don’t think he has much motivation to continue trying to extend his life through chemo at this point. As for how Walt finds out Jesse’s still alive, maybe he contacts Lydia or Todd?
Misc. thoughts:
I don’t think Marie will run into the Aryans at home. Todd told Jesse, “We’re on it,” when Jesse urged him to go get the video and that was during the day. But Marie’s at the White house when Walt’s call comes and that’s at night. I think the only way the Aryans are still there when Marie comes home is if they can’t find the video and need her to tell them where it is. Speaking of Marie, I understand she’s angry and hurt, but I didn’t like it when she told Skyler that Walt was caught and she couldn’t be happier and then made Skyler SAY, “I understand.” She could see Skyler was between a rock and a hard place – never defiant – even at their lunch meeting. Maybe that doesn’t matter and maybe Marie was justified. But it just seemed mean.
When the Aryans were digging up the money, all I could think was they can’t get away with it. I understand SOMEONE had to take Walt’s money as it would not be right if he got to keep it (or at least all of it). But the evil Aryans should not have it either! An ending where the money goes to a good cause or person would be too… happy. That would seem to imply that crime is justified if it benefits someone/something worthy. But that didn’t fly when Walt was cooking “for his family” and it still doesn’t. I can almost see it being in a place where no one will find it, of no use to anyone. … Hm…. Unless, is this what you mean about helping Skyler, Nomad? Walt gets Skyler off the hook by producing the money?
Walt is wearing Todd’s jacket (or one like it) in the f-f. But we see him leaving town in his own clothes and have no reason to believe he’s seen Todd before he’s shown in the f-f diner. (scratching head)
The White’s moved back into the house at some point. I didn’t think they would after the gas can incident.
That flash-back to the first cook (and Walt’s first lie to Skyler, according to the podcast) about did me in. If they do a whole montage at some point,… don’t know if I can take it!!!
re: “explain what you mean when you say it “could be one last attempt to get Skyler off the hook”?”
It seems clear that all of Jack’s crew are going to die violent deaths in the finale, most likely at Walt’s hands. But it also seems clear that won’t be just for taking most of his money. There MUST be a better reason than that. I just don’t know what VG will come up with.
Maybe Marie’s death will be enough. But the timing on that doesn’t seem to work. If Jack’s crew kills Marie while searching for Jesse’s video, it will be very soon. Why would Walt wait many months? I guess he’d have to wait for the opportunity, but more likely it will be some other factor that takes longer to develop.
BTW: As for Todd saying “we’re on it” during the daytime… we don’t KNOW that is the same day. It could easily have been the next day. Jesse’s injuries look like they’ve had a little time to heal (he’s not still bleeding) and the lighting when Todd takes Jesse out of the pit looks earlier in the day than when the shootout happened. Most likely they left Jesse in the pit overnight. Although we can presume that Jack’s crew won’t have to waste any time trying to figure out where Walt lives (because Jesse knows), they would also have to be careful about how they approach they house. Maybe they will do a night-time break in. But you can also bet that after Walt’s phone call, the cops will almost certainly urge Marie & Skyler to take the kids elsewhere, and the most likely places would either be Marie’s house or a hotel. If the latter, Marie probably would need to pick up a few personal items from her home, and that might set the stage for Jack’s crew to murder her.
Maybe Walt will eventually see Jack’s crew as a threat to his family (those that are still alive anyway). But I can’t for the life of me figure out why Jack’s crew would be an actual threat to Skyler/Jr./Holly, unless (as I mentioned before) Jr. goes down the wrong path and starts using drugs (which of course would have to be the blue meth). Walt would certainly come back to try to put a stop to that.
Or maybe VG will come up with some reasonably plausible way that Walt not only finds out that Jesse is still alive, but has a change of heart and decides he has suffered enough (that will take some real story-telling, considering that Walt is exactly right that Jesse’s inability to control his emotions is what, in the final hard-nosed analysis, brought all this crap down on ALL of them, including Jesse).
But it seems to me that the most likely thing that will develop in the intervening months will be legal troubles that ruin Skyler (and thus, Jr. & Holly) financially. Walt’s return with guns blazing might serve two purposes: to take out Jack’s crew to avenge Hank (and maybe Marie’s) death, and to help shore up Skyler’s story that she had no idea what Walt was really up to (and that she was afraid to find out). Nobody else who knew Walt would ever believe him capable of such a heinous act, so maybe he will have to PROVE to everyone just how badly he had broken.
Ah! I get it now. Thanks, Nomad!
Good point about the Todd/Jesse timeline. I assumed it was the same day, but it could been the next. No time-orienting phone call to help us this ep. :)
re: My One big question, ” will Jesse still be Todd’s involuntary helper when Walt returns many months later? ”
I think the answer to that is “yes”
It could also be as simple as indicated by Saul’s voice-over in the promo for next week: If Walt is gone, the Feds are going to try to make some charges stick to Skyler. Only if Walt comes back can he provide her with a way out. Only he won’t be coming back to “face the music,” his intention will be to prove what he meant in that last phone call to Skyler. Walt’s return could be one last attempt to get Skyler off the hook, to provide for his family after his death, which is what he was trying to do all along.
I also think that if Jack & his crew encounter and kill Marie while looking for Jesse’s video, Walt (having said what he did about having more things to do) will be implicated in that death, too. All this will mean that Walt’s goose is cooked seven ways from Sunday!
So maybe taking out Jack’s crew won’t just be about revenge or protecting Skyler from them, but a final effort to give Skyler a better excuse?
Hey, great job everyone, you’ve all provided great insight into the show.
Regarding Walt’s return, I feel like it might be related to the one thing Walt has left, his blue meth. That is his legacy and I think he wants it to die with him. That may be over the top or far fetched, but it’s like, “You took everything from me, but you can’t have this.” For all those who have suggested the ricin is for Walt (though it seems like that opinion is dying out) why would he poison himself in a way that would make him sick first? Too much suffering, and why would someone committing suicide care for an untraceable poison? It’s more probably for Lydia (he did bring it to the coffee shop that time).
BTW did anyone notice the phone by the knives? I knew Skyler was going for the knife, but seeing the phone there made me think there was a chance she would change his mind.
Also, here is a prediction I thought of but am not too sure of. First do Todd and Jack know of Walter as Heisenberg? I feel that whoever trashes the White house is someone who is threatening or who has done something to the rest of the White family, sending Walt a message or exacting revenge, and I think that might be Jesse. How he gets out, I have no clue, but we began seeing Jesse die on the inside, I think at this point all he has left is getting Walt.
If Todd and Jack don’t already know that Walt is Heisenberg, they’ll probably find out on the news or maybe they’ll come across Walt’s video while looking for Jesse’s confession.
That shot of the knives and phone WAS great! It presented the choices in a non-cliche way (didn’t pan back and forth while showing her looking distressed) and let us (me, anyway :) wonder for a few seconds which she would pick. In the end, it was both, since Jr. called 911, and they were equally damaging.
I wonder if after all this puzzling over who paints HEISENBERG on the wall it won’t just be one of the skateboarders. :)
I agree Jesse will be consumed with getting Walt now. If there was a chance at forgiveness, it’s gone now. I want him to escape and be with Andrea and Brock, but I can’t see that happening until Jack’s crew is gone and he’s “dealt with” Walt. Not that Jesse’s innocent. He’s committed crimes too, but there’s been an emphasis on how Walt has played/worked him repeatedly (victim) and he’s already suffered quite a lot (paid his debt). I hope he lives and is able to start over, as Walt suggested, and that he doesn’t go after Walt’s family. But you may be right. I’m learning to never say never regarding this show.
With you on Heisenberg. A tagger sort of thing that happens cuz the whole place is abandoned for months and is unsellable because of the notoriety. It will be plenty trashed after the cops search it looking for money etc. and skaters may work it over more.
I was struck by how Jr. turned on him so viciously, reporting that he attacked Jr.’s mom when that wasn’t so. Thin line between love and hate.
Mark, good point on the ricin. Glad you know the symptoms of ricin poisoning. ;) Don’t you think he will bring about his own death? How? The cancer’s here to stay. He could do the hospice thing behind cover of a new ID, but I think he will choose to check out since he doesn’t have family and doesn’t want to die slowly. Jesse would want to kill him now but not after being rescued by Walt. Maybe it would be done as a favor.
I was wrong when I said the knife and the phone call were equally damaging. I think Jr. said what he had to say to protect his mom, to get Walt to leave and the police to come asap because Walt was indeed “the danger” from Jr. and Skyler’s pov. At least with the knife he still had hope of being able to persuade them to come with him. But Jr.’s words to the operator, while looking Walt in the eyes, forced him to see how distrusted, feared, and abandoned he was and stripped away that hope. That had to hurt infinitely more than the blade.
Does anyone know the name/description of the location of the “vacuum repair man” pick-up spot – the one with the slabs sticking out of the ground like tombstones? I saw a reference in an article to that location several episodes ago when Jesse was waiting there, but can’t remember where I saw it.
I am simultaneously laughing and kicking myself as I had previously read about this on Nick CR’s (a good friend of over 20 years) blog, Tucker’s Hole, but got impatient when he didn’t respond right away to my email earlier today and posted my question in the hopes that one of you knew the answer!
Go to http://tuckershole.wordpress.com/2013/08/29/episode-511-confessions/, where Nick states as follows:
“The place where Jesse is waiting for the disappearerer is interesting. It is the John B. Robert Dam, used for runoff flood control. It looks like a cemetery full of large concrete tombstones looming behind Jesse. It also is located on Juan Tabo boulevard, which is the same street that Gale Boetticher lived on – the first person Jesse ever killed (on Walt’s orders in Episode 313 – “Full Measure”). This is symbolic of Jesse leaving all those skeletons behind him. Just time for a quick smoke before he starts his new life…”
He also provided a link to the dam on Google Street View so you can virtually walk around the site of the dam. Nick actually just pointed out to me that that Venezia’s pizza place has a location on that street. Those BrBa writers pay such attention to detail (as, apparently, do some of its viewers)!
BTW – this is not just a gratuitous plug for my friend’s blog (plus I see that Emilia already lists it as an alternative source of info in her weekly blogs); I honestly couldn’t remember where I had read this before!
Hi Fangirl, thanks for posting your follow-up, since I would have read this and spent who knows how long trying to find the answer — knowing I’d read it somewhere too, but unable to recall exactly where! haha Thanks also for the reminder to read Nick CR. I enjoy his critiques, just wish they were posted earlier in the week. Guy must be really busy.